The Road to Awakening: Unraveling Spiritual Terms for a Deeper Connection to Consciousness Insights with Haley Jane and Tonya Kerstiens

Are you ready to dive into the heart of spirituality and finally understand those mysterious spiritual terms? In this episode of the Happy Hour for the Spiritually Curious Podcast, Dr. Sandra Marie, host two remarkable guests, Reiki Masters Tonya Kerstiens and Haley Jane, to help decode spiritual terms and unlock a deeper understanding of consciousness. Tonya and Haley bring their years of expertise in energy work and spiritual healing to the table, offering insights you won’t find anywhere else.

What does "decoding spiritual terms" mean? For so many, spirituality can seem like a maze of complex terms and concepts. Here, we’re making it simple and accessible for everyone, whether you’re a beginner or well-versed in spiritual practices. This episode is all about spirituality, consciousness, and decoding spiritual terms in a way that everyone can understand and relate to. Did you know that 1 in 3 people today are exploring some form of spiritual practice? Now more than ever, people are searching for deeper meaning and ways to connect with their higher selves.

Join us as we unravel terms like spiritual bypass, crystalline energy, spiritual awakening, spiritual downloads, and holding space – each one discussed in-depth to ensure you truly understand. Many people experience a spiritual bypass, where they use spiritual practices to avoid addressing real-life issues, often at the expense of genuine personal growth. If you’ve ever been curious about spirituality and decoding spiritual terms, this episode is your gateway to clarity.

Why listen to this episode? If you’re interested in spirituality, consciousness, and decoding spiritual terms, this episode is crafted just for you. Tonya and Haley share insights from their extensive work with energy, explaining terms in ways that resonate with beginners and experienced spiritual seekers alike. Discover how understanding these terms can help you live a more connected, purposeful life and deepen your spiritual journey.

Tonya and Haley also share personal anecdotes, practical advice, and actionable steps you can take to embrace your own journey into spirituality and decoding spiritual terms. Whether you're looking to understand "holding space," avoid the pitfalls of "spiritual bypass," or explore "spiritual downloads," this episode has it all.

🔥 Don't Miss Out! If you’re ready to break down these profound concepts and make spirituality approachable, subscribe to our YouTube channel @wildsoulgatherings! Hit the bell to stay updated on all our latest episodes as we continue exploring spirituality and decoding spiritual terms in upcoming sessions with expert guests.

To learn more about Tonya and Haley go to our website https://www.wildsoulsgathering.com

Transcript

Dr. Sandra Marie (00:02.961)
Hello everyone, I have two beautiful souls with me here today to talk about decoding spiritual terms. Tonya Kerstiens from Feel Kneaded, Feel Connected Massage, and I have Haley Jane, a Reiki master. Welcome you guys.

Tonya Kerstiens (00:17.858)
Thanks for having us.

Dr. Sandra Marie (00:19.329)
I want to thank you both for being part of the 2024 Wild Soul Gathering Spiritual Summit, Spirituality Explained. This is going to be a beautiful event. And we're doing something a little different with both of you. We're pre -recording this session and we're going to be presenting it in snapshots with the information over the next three days. And I really appreciate both of you being open to being out of the box with this.

Haley Jane (00:19.877)
Thank you.

Dr. Sandra Marie (00:48.434)
So how this is gonna work is I'm gonna throw out some spiritual terms and Tonya and Haley are gonna share their insights on the terms and what they mean to them. So one of the things that we've noticed with spirituality explained is we're really looking at people who are curious and getting into this. But I'll say beginners, but not only beginners, and I'll ask you guys at the end this if you've ever had your own personal experience.

Haley Jane (00:52.101)
I love out of the box.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:16.37)
Even people who have been immersed in this in a while, it's interesting in chatting with them where they'll talk about, there was a term, and I'll use holding space as an example, where they heard it for a year and they were honestly not sure what it was and it took them a while to figure it out. So we're trying to get ahead of the game for the folks that are listening to this. If you're ready, let's get started.

soul path.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:50.803)
Who wants to go on soul path?

Tonya Kerstiens (01:55.586)
So Soul Path to me is like where...

Haley Jane (01:59.301)
Okay.

Tonya Kerstiens (02:05.186)
So like where you kind of choose or recognize what your sole purpose is and then you kind of learn lessons along the way and kind of go down this path. And this path is something that you've kind of already chosen maybe with your soul family.

Dr. Sandra Marie (02:28.884)
Nice. So, and just to throw out there, like I'm gonna throw out these terms and they are randomly disconnected, I think. But we both, all three of us know nothing's random. Crystalline energy.

Haley Jane (02:51.301)
I think I'll take this one if that's okay. I would say crystalline energy is kind of the makeup of all things in this world in a way. Like a human being...

itself is a crystalline grid. So it's full of crystalline energy and different energetic frequencies that are all tangled together to make up the reality that we are perceiving and living in on a regular basis.

Dr. Sandra Marie (03:22.678)
Beautiful. Lightworker.

Tonya Kerstiens (03:35.426)
I view light workers as they bring light to darkness. So they bring like joy to sadness, that kind of thing. And they are, light workers are the people that you really want to spend time with, that you feel so good when you're around them. And they are here to change our planet.

Dr. Sandra Marie (04:06.133)
I like that and without the dark, the light can't illuminate it.

Dr. Sandra Marie (04:16.565)
but we are moving out of that duality. So holding space.

Haley Jane (04:27.717)
I think holding space is kind of a combination of things. So there's a big intimacy piece with it. And when I say intimacy, I always like to say into me see. So you are completely holding space for someone by seeing into them, feeling into them, understanding them, sitting with them from a place of completely unconditional, unbiased, unjudgmental love.

in that moment and you're holding space for them to be who they need to be in that moment and express themselves in the way that they need to and you're just kind of there to give them your energy without judgment in any kind of way. That unconditional presence with someone.

Dr. Sandra Marie (05:17.755)
said. So do you have to be present to hold space with someone or can you do it from anywhere?

Haley Jane (05:28.773)
wouldn't say that you would physically have to be present with someone. It can be more from an energetic level, but it's just providing a container and I would say that that can be done either in person or not in person.

Dr. Sandra Marie (05:43.451)
Yeah, I would agree. And then just one more question on the holding space, because I think that you explained that very eloquently. Can you hold space for a situation as well as a person?

Haley Jane (06:00.965)
so.

Dr. Sandra Marie (06:02.075)
So it's really a pretty powerful tool, holding space.

Spiritual awakening.

Tonya Kerstiens (06:15.81)
fun.

me like what I wrote in my notes here.

So for me, it's basically just having those big realizations that make you want to change everything about your life. It can come like in any kind of way, shape or form, but it's almost like understanding that the way that you were taught to see things or the way that you have just perceived things to be is different.

completely different.

Dr. Sandra Marie (07:00.411)
Yes, nice synchronicity.

Haley Jane (07:09.861)
That's a good one.

I would say that synchronicity is when the more you are in alignment, the more things come to you to bring you into alignment. And it can be a myriad of things. but it's just something that points to you being on the highest path for yourself or you being in alignment with

your growth and sometimes synchronicities can even lead you into negative situations for expansions sake so that's not always to say that synchronicities have to be outright positive but in one way or another they are little signs or gifts from your from your guides whatever you want to call it just things that are you know giving you answers or lighting your path for things to take

Dr. Sandra Marie (08:10.782)
Wow, that's well said and I love that you brought up that something may not feel so touchy -feely, but is also a positive. Coincidence and synchronicity, I feel like synchronicity gets very misunderstood with people perceiving things as a coincidence.

but the coincidence is synchronicity without the awareness. I would say maybe coincidence is like an unconscious synchronicity.

Sometimes I shock myself with what I say. This was not on my list, but just listening to you give your explanation of that, a term that I'm hearing used a lot now is mirror.

Can you talk about mirror? Yeah, when something's a mirror to you. Like someone will say, well, that was a mirror to you.

Haley Jane (09:07.397)
Mirror?

Haley Jane (09:19.365)
To me this entire three dimensional existence is kind of like a mirror. So it works in the sense that it is reflecting back to you at all times what you are a vibrational match to, consciously or un.

Dr. Sandra Marie (09:38.527)
Nice. Spirituality.

Tonya Kerstiens (09:45.41)
Spirituality for me is...

kind of like that journey that you take on your soul path to learn those lessons and spirituality is just a way of life.

Dr. Sandra Marie (10:08.832)
My spirit guides.

Haley Jane (10:18.149)
Do you want to take that one or you want me to?

Tonya Kerstiens (10:19.426)
Sure, I can, absolutely. So Spirit Guides are like any type of being that has, they're here to help you, they're here to cheer you on, they want absolutely nothing but the best for you. And I believe that, you know, that we kind of picked them and chose them, you know, before we came here to Earth to live this life so that they can

They can help us and they can be any type of being whatsoever. And I believe that you have kind of a family of spirit guides, so to say, and each one is like an expert in a certain field or whatever. So you have like a spirit guide for love, you have a spirit guide for career, you have a spirit guide for, you know, just about everything.

Dr. Sandra Marie (11:14.466)
Nice. Multidimensional.

Haley Jane (11:25.853)
So we live in multi -dimensional realities. That means that it is separated into different

fixed vibrational frequencies. So here we have the 3D. So that's where you have that law of mirroring and you have the hermetic principles and this specific dimension is guided by those principles. And when you are here, you agree to adhere to those principles. There are multiple dimensions where some of those wax and wane and some of those laws interchange and some of those laws don't exist in higher dimensions.

and all, I would say that we are multi -dimensional beings at our core. And then you just put your soul or your over soul, your light body, so to say, in whatever dimension you are needing for expansion, say, one way or another.

Dr. Sandra Marie (12:24.965)
Thank you for that. Do you feel that we can be living or existing on different dimensions all at the same time?

Haley Jane (12:37.637)
Absolutely. Everything is all at once, all the time.

Dr. Sandra Marie (12:38.533)
I -I -

So there's always that saying, it says, a spiritual being on a human experience. And more recently, I heard someone say that we're not spiritual beings on a human experience, that we're spiritual beings on a spiritual experience. And I was like, OK, that actually seems more accurate to me. Channel or channeling?

Haley Jane (13:13.893)
I would say that can also kind of tie into spirit guides, but channeling is when you can get yourself into a vibrational state match to another being.

and then what usually happens is that being will come through you and use you to speak or to act or to project their consciousness through you. Some people can do that very easily, some people it takes meditation and getting into a certain state of mind to do so.

Dr. Sandra Marie (13:50.186)
So my understanding is the higher vibrational being has to bring their energy down and the human being has to bring theirs up to try and hit that match, I think. Not exactly sure how it works, but you explained it. You explained it nicely, better than I would have. And Haley, I'm going to guess this is yours, but maybe Tonya will take it. Vibration and frequency. So it's very common to hear.

people are in a lower vibration, people are in a higher vibration, it's a lower vibrational situation, higher vibrational situation, or that there's a frequency that people are vibrating at. Are they the same, they're different, do they play off of each other?

Haley Jane (14:45.957)
I would say they play off of each other. So if you look at what vibration is from this physics concept, a vibration is an oscillation back and forth of particles. What a frequency is, is the number of changes in a period of time within those vibrations. So the way that I would like to look at it is that vibration is somewhat of a god particle. So it's something that's always existing.

oscillation and a frequency is what organizes that oscillation to project forth whatever it is that you are seeing. So vibration is more of a constant and frequency is the organization of that constant for manifestation sake.

Tonya Kerstiens (15:35.81)
Yeah, had it explained to me recently. So I was very excited to know that we were going to talk about it today. They explained it as like the vibration is like a drum beat and frequency is like the music note.

Dr. Sandra Marie (15:52.333)
okay. So that I love that we have two different ways to speak it because one, well, aha, someone one way and the other way. Nice. Light body.

Nicely said.

Haley Jane (16:14.917)
Light body is what I would say is God's source as you, but from a dimension higher than what your actual physical body is, if that makes sense.

Dr. Sandra Marie (16:29.326)
it does.

Haley Jane (16:32.229)
your light body would be more of your over soul or that just pure consciousness of you.

Dr. Sandra Marie (16:39.406)
I get that makes sense.

Downloads so downloads is something that I personally like

I thought I had an understanding of it, but I didn't have an understanding of it. So I'm curious how you will each describe downloads.

Tonya Kerstiens (17:08.13)
E.

Haley Jane (17:09.477)
I would say...

Tonya Kerstiens (17:12.45)
You go ahead, you go ahead.

Haley Jane (17:13.093)
Go ahead.

Haley Jane (17:17.669)
So a download for me, I would say that it is just an insight of information coming to you and that can happen in so many different ways. But it's more of a consciousness upgrade. So download to upgrade, I guess.

is a good way that I would describe it, but it's any kind of information that is coming through to you in whatever way that it needs to. You get downloads from your spirit guides if they're giving you insights and you're taking that in, that would be what I would describe as a download or ancestral information or information as a channel.

just the processing of information is what I would call a down.

Tonya Kerstiens (18:11.618)
I agree. I would say the exact same thing. And I would just add that, you know, sometimes it comes in the form of like ringing in your ears and enough that it just kind of makes you stop and like evaluate what you're doing, what's going on, or it can come journaling, anything where that that thought comes in really, really fast, and you don't really know where it came from. And that idea or something like that.

Dr. Sandra Marie (18:38.419)
Okay, so it's something that a person would be conscious of. They may not understand or have an awareness, but there's some level of consciousness to it. Or would you receive downloads unconsciously?

Haley Jane (18:54.917)
I would say that you could also receive downloads unconsciously and that might be like in the realm of those situations that are synchronistic that aren't all feel good and fuzzy sometimes. But I will also add to that that these downloads are capable of altering and upgrading your DNA as well. So they are very powerful on the other end of the spectrum as well.

Tonya Kerstiens (19:20.034)
if they come in dreams too.

Dr. Sandra Marie (19:22.548)
yeah.

Haley Jane (19:25.541)
Yeah, all kinds of different manifestations.

Dr. Sandra Marie (19:27.86)
I agree, nicely done. Soul retrieval. People will talk about soul retrieval and doing soul retrieval work.

Haley Jane (19:45.573)
Okay, so in order to talk about soul retrieval, I want to preface that with fragmentation. So whenever a trauma happens in someone's life, there is a fragmentation that happens or splitting off of that person and it can be from one part to thousands of parts per trauma. So that

Dr. Sandra Marie (19:50.452)
Mm -hmm.

Haley Jane (20:11.877)
the wholeness of a person, there are parts of them

via the trauma that they have had to disconnect and disown and deny and suppress and break away from for survival's sake. So what a soul retrieval would be for our situations such as fragmentation where you have a soul that has been split and separated from itself and you would be doing conscious parts work or integration work to call those parts of yourself back into find integration with the

parts of you that might have been fragmented.

Dr. Sandra Marie (20:48.885)
I just stop explaining that all sudden.

Haley Jane (20:54.117)
And it doesn't always have to be through trauma either. You have soul retrieval from like ancestral work or you know past lives where your energy is stuck things like that. So anywhere that you have given bits and pieces of yourself consciously or unconsciously it can be used to just call all of that energy back to yourself.

Dr. Sandra Marie (21:13.397)
Yeah, I think that that was important to add. So I'm going to add two other terms, ancestral work or yeah, ancestral work.

Haley Jane (21:27.941)
That's a big one right now in collective.

Dr. Sandra Marie (21:31.445)
Well, I think it's come to the forefront for a lot of folks for a reason. You know, there's a lot going on in this lifetime and part of this lifetime is to heal and change all and the oneness.

So it's, it is, I'll use the term perhaps baggage that we bring in from our ancestors or issues that have been long standing within a lineage that people are beginning to recognize that it's not just this lifetime, that there's many lifetimes in a family issue of it and they put conscious work to it.

And we have the ability as souls to heal the whole lineage. So it'll be no more. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.

Haley Jane (22:32.837)
I want to just kind of tail off of the healing, the whole lineage. So a lot of people can get bogged down by ancestral work.

You know people that may not know their lineage or things like that. They they feel that I don't have access to it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't do Ancestral work so the second that you find something that has come up in you if You do the parts work and the integration work and the shadow work behind it You can ultimately get to that point anyway, and the second that you heal it in yourself boom It's healed for the whole line

So it can end with you just as quickly as, you know, thousands of generations that got it started. You can literally be the one that turns it around for your entire family line. So you doing the work does the work for everybody else in the family line as well.

Dr. Sandra Marie (23:28.917)
powerful.

Tonya Kerstiens (23:30.05)
for the future too, right?

Dr. Sandra Marie (23:33.369)
that's, yeah, Tonya, that is important, yeah. Nice. Intuitive. So intuitive has been a big term that's come up with this summit. It's interesting that it has turned out to be sort of an underlying concept throughout the summit. So would you talk about intuitive, intuition?

Haley Jane (23:35.173)
Yeah, absolutely.

Tonya Kerstiens (24:00.994)
to me is just that gut feeling that you have. Or when you just feel like you know something, maybe you don't even know why you necessarily know it, but just that gut feeling.

Dr. Sandra Marie (24:24.889)
Yeah.

Haley Jane (24:25.317)
I would agree. It's a feminine principle. Intuition comes from just the being able to understand emotions and that deeper connection to a higher dimension. And feminine is the portal between the two of those worlds. So intuition is a very feminine principle.

everybody is capable of doing it but also everybody has masculine and feminine polarities inherent in them so

Dr. Sandra Marie (24:56.96)
Nice. So you had brought this up a few minutes ago. Shadow work. Shadow work's big these days.

Haley Jane (25:10.917)
working on what you don't know that you don't know.

shadow work... it tends to get kind of a negative connotation because you hear the word shadow and you instantly think dark or negative or whatever but it doesn't have to be. Shadow work is just making what you are unaware of. You're bringing it to the forefront of your consciousness and you're doing the work with it so I think it gets a bad rep sometimes but shadow work is very important. I'm very passionate about shadow work for my own personal practice.

Dr. Sandra Marie (25:45.305)
I think it's one of the terms that is just not understood. Like people hear it and they're making assumptions but they're not really sure what shadow work is.

Tonya Kerstiens (26:00.226)
I think why it gets such that negative context to it is because it's hard. It's hard when you dive deep into yourself and you're trying to understand like, why do I have these blocks? Why do I have these limited beliefs? Like, where do they come from? And so it can sometimes be really hard to kind of work through that and fight through that. But it's so rewarding in the end. And I think that's what people forget is like,

how rewarding it can be, how much relief, how much lighter you can feel, just understanding yourself.

Dr. Sandra Marie (26:39.193)
That's important.

Haley Jane (26:45.157)
I want to add to that, that you know in the spiritual community sometimes you get into this

kind of Novocaine spirituality where you know you think that spiritual awakening is just supposed to be sunshines and rainbows all the time and that is not the reality of it at all. It does not always feel good. It is not always good vibes only and high vibrational frequencies and all of those things. It's it's nitty -gritty. It's dark. It's hard work. So that needs to

be a part of someone's spiritual awakening if you are just sticking to these kind of surface level concepts of positive thinking and things like that. You don't do the deep work. You don't get to the root cause of suffering and you don't get anywhere. You just kind of stay at that surface level.

Dr. Sandra Marie (27:41.497)
Thank you for adding that, so I'll throw another term out there. Spiritual bypass. Do you see that interplaying with that? I think a lot of people use spiritual bypass. Can you explain that a little bit about what that means, too?

Haley Jane (27:51.973)
yes.

Haley Jane (28:02.693)
I would say that it is using anything to just...

numb yourself in a way and that can even be spirituality. So you can take these spiritual concepts and you can do positive affirmations all day long but at your core you're not believing them. You're lying to yourself and you're not doing the deep work of why you are having whatever issues that you may be having. So you can, anything can be used to bypass. Anything can be medicine or poison depending on your relationship to it and I think in the spiritual field and

the self -help field spiritual bypassing is a very easy thing to get caught up in and that's where things like shadow work and exploring the unknown and doing these deep dives is important because it keeps you in the real work and not just doing the roundabout things to kind of ease those surface symptoms and numb rather than actually heal.

Dr. Sandra Marie (29:06.361)
Thank you, very powerful. Intention setting. I feel like these are all playing off of each other in an unintentional way when they were listed, but you gotta love how spirit works.

Haley Jane (29:17.285)
a little bit. Tonya, do you want to take that one?

Tonya Kerstiens (29:21.826)
So I think intention setting is very just simple. It's just kind of knowing what you want or what you need and using that to.

Tonya Kerstiens (29:39.138)
to get, I get this, sorry. So like, for example, if you're setting a crystal grid or if you're getting a Reiki session, even if you're doing a massage session, like anything, and you just set a goal of what you want to accomplish with that. So if you're setting a crystal grid, like, and you want the crystal grid for protection,

then just kind of holding those crystals and giving it that goal of, I want protection. Or if you're in a reiki session and you're wanting to clear blocks that you may have in your heart or something, then just setting that goal of, I want to clear out these blocks. And it kind of lets the universe know that, hey, I'm really serious. This is what I really want. So please help me out with that.

Dr. Sandra Marie (30:39.833)
So it's interesting, a practice that I've recently gotten into over the last month or so is setting intentions before I go to sleep because there's so much work that occurs in our sleep space that either we're conscious of or unconscious of. Excuse me. That we're either conscious of or unconscious of. It just seemed to become important that I set a

Haley Jane (30:43.141)
I would agree.

Dr. Sandra Marie (31:09.337)
an intention with that so that I'm sort of utilizing all the tools that are available to me.

Dr. Sandra Marie (31:18.361)
Haley, you were gonna say something?

Haley Jane (31:24.869)
I was just piggybacking kind of off of what she said. It's that intention is kind of the prerequisite to manifestation. So setting the intention is just putting out there what you're wanting to call back to you and doing an intention is doing it in a very conscious, very powerful way because you have to be very precise about what you want and put that out so that it can ripple back to you.

Dr. Sandra Marie (31:50.969)
Yeah, I will say that I have said, thank you for saying that, especially the preciseness, because I've certainly set intentions and received the manifestation of it, but I clearly didn't think it through once I've got the result, which takes you back to the next time, right?

Haley Jane (32:11.077)
Be careful what you wish, or you just might get it.

Dr. Sandra Marie (32:13.081)
Exactly, exactly. Soul Tribe.

Haley Jane (32:28.453)
anyone anything any being that is in your core vibrational wave space so that can be people things whatever on this plane it can be out of this plane it can be kind of an amalgamation of all different kinds of people it could

just be your family or your friend group, but it could also be your spirit guides, people that you've had a pre -birth intention of having as a part of your experience in one way or another. Could be positive, could be negative too. Some people you've agreed to have them come in and cause havoc in your life a little bit for you to learn specific lessons and things like that. So it goes both ways, but it would just be anyone, anything, any being that is

here to help you in your expansion on whatever plane that may be.

Dr. Sandra Marie (33:28.409)
Nice, I agree. Manifestation.

Dr. Sandra Marie (33:35.321)
I'm going to say manifestation versus flow. Are they the same or are they different?

Haley Jane (33:47.941)
I would say slightly different but connected. And because when you are in the flow, you more easily manifest.

Dr. Sandra Marie (34:06.12)
So it's like the frequency vibration.

Haley Jane (34:08.068)
Because everything that is supposed to be yours is vibrationally going to be yours no matter what. The matter of you actually reaching it is being a vibrational match to it. So a lot of times where people get bogged up in manifestation is that they are blocking themselves in some way or another from the thing that it is that they want.

But when you're in the flow and when you're in that state of allowing and surrender and all of those things and in perfect trust, then manifestation happens for you more easily.

Dr. Sandra Marie (34:40.104)
So we have the intention, the manifestation and the flow. It almost feels like it's a process there.

Dr. Sandra Marie (34:51.944)
sole contracts.

Tonya Kerstiens (34:59.138)
ties in together with the soul tribe and the soul path and all those things. Like Kaylee said, at pre -birth you make these conversations with people or beings that sit down and determine what lessons you need to learn and how they're going to help you and what their role is going to be. And then you sign these contracts and

and fulfill these contracts that I've heard things about.

getting rid of contracts or tearing up contracts. I don't know much about that in general. I don't know if it's after one has been fulfilled or if it's, you know, just maybe it's not working. I'm not sure how that works, but yeah.

Dr. Sandra Marie (35:56.457)
I had not heard that.

Dr. Sandra Marie (36:02.089)
Interesting. So yeah, this it piggybacked off of what we had just talked about quantum healing.

Tonya Kerstiens (36:12.994)
You, Haley.

Haley Jane (36:19.813)
The word quantum is involved. Okay. I would say that quantum healing is...

Haley Jane (36:31.973)
all around healing. It's hard for me to want to put it in words that are easy to understand.

Haley Jane (36:44.421)
me.

Haley Jane (36:54.341)
I had a whole thing about it actually and I've lost it. So I would just say that quantum healing is something that you are doing on a grander basis. So it kind of represents that ripple effect that happens when you're healing something for yourself. You're not just healing something for yourself. You're healing something for all of the generations that have come before you. You are making it easier for generations after you to heal. You are creating a ripple.

effect in the collective consciousness so you are quantumly affecting everything that is around you.

Dr. Sandra Marie (37:31.436)
So would you consider, we're all Reiki people, would you consider Reiki healing? A version of quantum healing?

Dr. Sandra Marie (37:43.662)
Yeah, I was going to say, you know, just that's sort of a core thing with the three of us. And I think it's a when you say the word quantum or physics, either or, you know, it sends people off in this like it's beyond my comprehension. I can't understand that. So when I think we bring it back to where Reiki has become a lot more mainstream now than it was 10 or 20 years ago, that Reiki is a nice

Haley Jane (37:44.325)
Absolutely.

Dr. Sandra Marie (38:12.589)
understandable example of quantum healing.

Sacred geometry. Sacred geometries come into the forefront a lot.

Haley Jane (38:28.517)
kind of within that quantum realm. Sacred geometry makes up this entire dimension, really. The organization of energy and matter to project forth the manifestations that are inherent in the 3D construct.

Dr. Sandra Marie (38:28.909)
Mm -hmm.

Dr. Sandra Marie (38:49.293)
So I've heard it described as the mechanics of spirituality. What do you think about that?

Haley Jane (38:52.549)
of the building.

Haley Jane (38:57.541)
Yep.

Tonya Kerstiens (38:58.69)
I always heard it as the building blocks of the universe that's found everywhere.

Dr. Sandra Marie (39:07.567)
I feel like there's this whole thing in the unseen that is just sacred geometry as part of that mechanical process of how this all works, especially bringing us down to spiritual beings as humans.

Dr. Sandra Marie (39:28.814)
connected should be connected to higher self.

Dr. Sandra Marie (39:36.373)
Which...

Haley Jane (39:38.469)
I think Leonardo da Vinci gave quite a few secrets as to how sacred geometry and the higher self are even connected. We see in the Vitruvian man and in the Fibonacci spirals and things like that, that humans are also sacred geometry. So it's...

basically giving you the answer that you are the over soul and creator of your universe in this perfect geometric sequence of whatever it is that's manifesting.

Dr. Sandra Marie (40:13.934)
Nice connection. Thank you for bringing up that Michelangelo's work because yeah, he put it out there a long time ago and people just didn't pay attention or it didn't serve a purpose, I think. You know, that was a big Renaissance period and I...

Haley Jane (40:33.573)
and one Renaissance alchemist.

Dr. Sandra Marie (40:34.898)
Exactly. And I feel like we are now at the beginning of another huge Renaissance period and a lot of alchemy that's happening and multiple layers in this human earth world. So that's interesting. Third eye.

Speaking of Fibinnoci, see that's a word I'm not going to even try to say, principles.

Haley Jane (41:04.293)
the seat of the soul, really. So the third eye is your sixth chakra. So when people say you have a sixth sense, your intuition, your higher knowing, your connectedness to source, that's coming from your third eye. It's associated with your pineal gland, it's associated with your parasympathetic nervous system. It is the bridge between...

physical and spiritual, well the higher bridge, higher than the heart, but it is the seat of your intuition and your higher self.

Dr. Sandra Marie (41:39.985)
Nice, and in Egyptian culture you see it all over the place with the Eye of Horus so just like with Michelangelo, all of this information has been put out and is still out there from a long time ago. So the next term is etheric body, which I think flows right into what you were just talking about.

Haley Jane (41:47.525)
absolutely.

Haley Jane (42:08.837)
I would say, well, you know, there are several different vibrational levels of yourself manifested as a human. So your etheric body, your light body, your higher self, these are all kind of terms for the different aspects of those vibrational levels of yourself.

Dr. Sandra Marie (42:31.698)
And one can work in each of these energetic fields. Would you call them energetic fields of the human?

Haley Jane (42:42.053)
Yeah.

Haley Jane (42:45.413)
Kind of how you would see an aura, but it's layered. You have multiple of them that extend out from you quite extensively. You have quite an energetic field.

Dr. Sandra Marie (42:56.658)
We do. We're literally a lot bigger than we think. Which is funny, the next term I have is aura cleansing.

Haley Jane (43:13.669)
You want to take that one, Tonya?

Tonya Kerstiens (43:13.89)
Sure. So I think your auric field is, you know, right outside your body. It can be kind of any kind of length, really. And it's believed that everything kind of comes to it first before it actually gets to your physical body. So you can clear out your auric space and actually like get rid of like germs or colds that may be trying to get to you.

You can also clear out any kind of like negative or stagnant energy or other people's negative stagnant energy that's trying to like get in. And it's like, once it's kind of cleared out, it's almost like taking a multivitamin or something. It's very, very cleansing.

Dr. Sandra Marie (44:06.39)
That is such a good way to put it, I like that. Sound healing.

Haley Jane (44:17.445)
Ooh, sound healing. Frequencies. Sound healing is using specific frequencies of sound to resonate with.

body and to bring the body to match it. So whenever you are working with frequency healing or sound healing, there is a law of resonance that states that whatever the lower vibration is, it has to rise to match the higher vibration. So when you take things like singing bowls or tuning forks that are tuned to a higher specific frequency, usually they're tuned to the frequency

of each chakra per se, when you ring that, your body has to begin to raise its vibration to meet that of the instrument that's being used. So it is a way to elevate the entire frequency of the body on all levels to promote healing.

Dr. Sandra Marie (45:24.982)
I do think that a person... Go ahead.

Haley Jane (45:28.325)
And it's actually...

Haley Jane (45:33.605)
It's quite amazing, they've done studies that show that people have completely shrank cancer cells from combining two frequencies. 60 % of the cancer cells died in three minutes of these tuning sessions. It's incredible the research that's being done now.

Dr. Sandra Marie (45:44.506)
That's what I was just gonna say. Yeah.

Dr. Sandra Marie (45:55.417)
So I agree, I think that sound healing is really going to come to the forefront. I think that there's already been a lot of information out there. Again, if you get into ancient Egyptian and some of these structures that are perfectly set up for different kinds of sounds and how, you know, there's the hypothesis that these were used for healing in the past. But I think we're going to see our medical community.

I don't know that they'll embrace it, but we're gonna see in medicine a lot of different healing modalities using frequencies. And I know the studies on cancer is a prime, tangible study that's out there, and I think that there's absolutely more to come. Sound baths have now become a big thing. I had a friend back in the days when I lived in Cleveland before, honestly, it was really out there like that was her.

That was her modality. We used to trade Reiki for the sound work. And it was just probably one of the most, I can't even explain it. Like it was just such a, it was overwhelmingly blissful for me when I came out of her sound bath work. And I see now that it's becoming a lot more mainstream. So I think more to come on the sound healing. I think we're going to see it expand and be used in much different ways. I agree with you on that one.

Do either of you use sound with your Reiki practice?

Haley Jane (47:30.693)
I do.

Tonya Kerstiens (47:31.714)
I use that?

Haley Jane (47:33.445)
sound and crystals.

Dr. Sandra Marie (47:33.598)
Yeah, I also, I think that it makes a difference.

Dr. Sandra Marie (47:44.733)
Speaking of crystals, let's talk about crystal grids. You've mentioned it, both of you have mentioned it I think a couple of times. Can you get a little more specific about crystals and crystal grids?

Haley Jane (48:03.589)
Well, again, humans are kind of crystal grids. We have crystals in our bodies. So we are a walking crystal grid if you set the intentions precisely. But to set up a crystal grid is to create kind of a power bank, if you will.

and set an intention into that power bank and these crystals emit that frequency. The pyramids, all of these sacred sites, they're very much working like giant crystal grids. And then each human is kind of a little mini micro crystal grid.

but they are very powerful. They can be used in healing. They can be used in manifestation, communication with higher dimensions, all kinds of different things. But it's just a specific geometric layout of crystals with a specific intention attached to it.

Dr. Sandra Marie (49:04.578)
That is so eloquently said. Recently, I've had some people staying on the farm. I've had some coming and going. And there was, we were doing a lot of different spiritual type of works. And the one lady who was here is a Feng Shui, is her like passion in life. And she walked around the house and she was like, you have open areas here. And made some suggestions of.

what I could do and was curious how it would feel. And one of them was creating a crystal grid and anchoring the corners of the house and different ways to use the crystals and how they were placed in which crystals and the energetic vibration of them. And I did that and it, I can feel an energy shift within, so it's nice. I'm thinking that, you know, my next step will be to energetically grid out my

barns in my outbuildings for the animals because they also deserve to feel better and in a nicer energetic place since that's their living situation. I know that may sound crazy to some people, but to me it makes sense.

Dr. Sandra Marie (50:18.401)
Do you guys have, just asking off the cuff, do you have a crystal at this particular point in time that's wanting to work with you?

Haley Jane (50:33.029)
goodness, so many.

I have a grid around me right now actually of just my chakra stones.

Dr. Sandra Marie (50:42.852)
I appreciate that you're like being honest about it. So I have a citrine crystal that I'm physically holding on to as we record. So initially I've always had a clear crystal and I think a lot of it is I was using it for my hand fidgeting because I apparently talk a lot with my hands and when I was editing it doesn't look pretty on film when you do that. But most recently like

I don't don't that crystal seems to have moved off the recording area. I noticed before we were recording, I'm like, where did it go? But this, this cintrine crystal has wanted to be here, I think for the summit, to be honest with you, because it has just showed itself up on the desk for the past week and I'm really heavy in doing this. So it's funny, we were talking about it and for whatever reason this citrine crystal has made its way.

into the summit.

Which is a nice, I mean, they all have beautiful properties, but cintrine is just such a nice touchy -feely little energy. So a little bit of rambling there.

Haley Jane (51:47.205)
Right where it wants to be.

Haley Jane (51:58.981)
Moonstone is when I'm rockin' the most right now.

Dr. Sandra Marie (52:00.293)
Okay. Yeah. Tonya, you're being very quiet about this.

Tonya Kerstiens (52:04.962)
I usually wear two around my neck and sorry the cords getting caught up in it. Right now it's a high right and I forget this one but they tend to start to get really really heavy whenever it's time to change them out and then I just kind of do like muscle testing or swaying to see which ones are next.

Dr. Sandra Marie (52:07.397)
okay.

Tonya Kerstiens (52:35.202)
For a while I had communication ones to help speak better and be a little more confident speaking.

Dr. Sandra Marie (52:44.101)
I like that actually now that you mentioned that I have a piece of Moldivite around my neck that more recently said pick me I want you to wear them because usually you know I'm out on the farm so I'm not wearing a lot of jewelry but for whatever reason this piece of Moldivite was like you need to be wearing me so it's on.

Dr. Sandra Marie (53:12.197)
being in alignment.

Tonya Kerstiens (53:18.37)
good one. I think there's several different ways you can look at it and then it all just kind of mashes in together. So my first initial thoughts would always be like chakra alignments because of Reiki and trying to make sure that those are in alignment. But then there's, there's

more than just, you know, kind of energetic alignment. There's being in alignment mentally and emotionally and.

I think when we are in those alignment, when we are in alignment, then things kind of flow to us better. They come to us better, more positive things. We almost become like a super magnet to attract all the good stuff.

Dr. Sandra Marie (54:19.017)
I would agree with that for sure. Sacred, feminine, and masculine, we touched on this a little bit earlier, but I think it's important, especially with this shift that we're going through.

Haley Jane (54:39.429)
That's a very... how much time do we have? That's a very wide umbrella of things to get into.

Dr. Sandra Marie (54:41.193)
Go for it. Again, we're breaking this up over three days, so you have as much time as you want. And I do think it's very important, especially with what's going on right now.

Haley Jane (54:51.077)
Okay.

Haley Jane (54:58.021)
Well, so I kind of want to break it down coming from a Hermetic's perspective. So we see gender as the seventh law in the Hermetic principles, which means that everything has masculine or feminine qualities. Gender is not to be confused with sex or physical.

gender expression in any kind of way. These are just things like on the feminine side you have intuition, you have receiving, you have darkness, you have these qualities energetically that are inherently feminine or nurturing or not action based and then masculine would be action based, forward momentum, sunlight.

protection outward expression things of that nature and everything in these polarities has both and you can be leaning more to one side or the other side on them but in the Hermetic principles and in alchemy the the grand mastery of alchemy is the hermaphrodite or the mastering and perfect harmony of having

both in alignment with your soul's higher purpose.

Dr. Sandra Marie (56:25.517)
So I'm going to put you on the spot here a little bit. How would you say that's mirroring with what's happening on the earth plane right now in the world?

Haley Jane (56:39.237)
I would say honestly that we've never seen a full expression of the world being in its feminine power or masculine power. We've only ever seen a pendulum swing from one toxic side to the other, unfortunately. But I will say that one of the major blessings of this time is that, you know, this is where we could turn it around.

but we are very much on the tipped scale side of very dangerous territory when it comes to masculine and feminine because feminine is almost overriding masculine in defense of itself from all of the oppression before and then in these times of war and all of these, you know,

political things happening, we're seeing the expressions of toxic masculinity to the absolute extreme. So what we've really got to do as a society is find that perfect harmony between the two of them instead of having the pendulum swung to one side or the other.

Dr. Sandra Marie (57:52.754)
I think that you spoke that really well and I think that we are so gifted even though it may not always feel so good to be here during this chaotic time. I personally feel that we are in the shift of exactly what you said. I agree with you 100 % of the shift of, and my next statement was being in harmony and we'll get to that, but shifting the world into a place of

you know, respect, peace, lack of judgment, that kind of thing. I'm going to be promoting a park bench project that a fellow from Mastering Alchemy is doing that as we're here in physicality, we have the ability to influence what this new consciousness is going to look like and we have the ability to be, we are the creators of it. So we all here are actively doing that and

You know, the one more than one comes together, there's more energy that gets put to that. So that'll be something else that's also going to be talked about during the summit. But I just feel like this is a super big topic. And I think that you explained it very eloquently to help someone who may be hearing these terms and it just they're not exactly sure what they mean. So thank you for that. And I'll go into the next one. Being in harmony.

Haley Jane (59:30.213)
Harmony is when one or more things are moving in agreement to one another. and that is really the way of the world. I prefer the word harmony to the word balance even.

because balance implies that it's equal and it isn't always. But harmony implies that even though things are moving, they're moving differently perhaps even, they're in agreement to one another. So it's that delicate dance of life is where harmony tends to take me. And when you're in harmony, you're more in a flow state.

Dr. Sandra Marie (59:52.693)
Mm -hmm.

Haley Jane (01:00:16.389)
or a state of alignment in some way or another like Tonya was talking about earlier. You can be in alignment in many different ways and harmony is kind of all of those different ways delicately dancing interwoven with one another to me.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:00:31.669)
So sort of the alchemized outcome of shifting this current state of divine feminine masculine.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:00:42.901)
would be being in harmony, living in a world of harmony, having a planet of harmony with all that exists.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:00:53.525)
So we've used the term alchemy multiple times. Can you explain what is alchemy? It can sound...

very magical to someone.

Haley Jane (01:01:14.341)
Well, it at its basis is the transmutation of matter. But as an overlay, it is kind of the path to enlightenment. Becoming the alchemist means like you are the ultimate wizard of your life.

you've mastered yourself. And so in doing that, you kind of have the keys to all other things. Being able to transmute the lower thing, the lower vibrational frequencies to higher vibrations. From kind of a scientific standpoint, we've often seen alchemy as portrayed as turning base metals into gold.

But that's a metaphor really for the spiritual gold and finding that magic at the heart of everything and knowing that you are the master and the creator of your universe.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:02:25.593)
So that being said, do you feel like we are alchemizing humanity and that humanity is in the process of an early transmutation right now?

Haley Jane (01:02:47.141)
Yeah, I would say that.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:02:50.553)
That being said, transformation, transformation evolving, those are two spiritual terms that are used frequently in conversation.

Haley Jane (01:03:09.285)
Tonya, you wanna take that one?

Tonya Kerstiens (01:03:12.034)
I hadn't really ever heard of it. And so I was kind of like poking around, you know, Google and TikTok and, you know, all the reliable sources, right? And I kept coming across the Ascension process. So is it, is that essentially what it is or? I don't know.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:03:34.748)
I think it is, so then how would we describe ascension?

Tonya Kerstiens (01:03:39.266)
So it's, I always think about like Mario and each time you like complete the level, you level up to the next one. And so you kind of start at like that base level of you're just kind of here. You're not really aware of anything. And then

you just kind of move up. So the first thing that you become aware of is things around you like nature and animals and things like that. And then the next step would be becoming aware of oneself. And you just kind of move up from there and until you reach, I guess, enlightenment or you're like Super Mario, right?

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:04:31.004)
There you go. I didn't know you were a big gamer, Tonya. So now you said enlightenment. How would you describe enlightenment?

Tonya Kerstiens (01:04:33.346)
Thank you.

I feel like that is, wow.

Tonya Kerstiens (01:04:48.962)
total awareness of everything and understanding exactly kind of what our purpose is, what others are, they have a purpose as well that is definitely different from our own. And then not only just having that awareness, but having also an understanding and being empathetic of it.

and

I think, yeah.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:05:24.129)
Okay, no, I think you did a great job with that. Thank you. And, you know, those were just thrown, literally thrown out at you. So meditation, we talk about meditation all the time. And many people when they're first starting out, honestly, find meditation unattainable or painful or they struggle with it a little bit. We take the term meditation for

How would you actually language what meditation is to someone who's just starting out in spirituality? And they're like really curious about what's this all about and is this something I want to get into.

Tonya Kerstiens (01:06:10.114)
I always tell my clients it's not, you know, sitting with your legs crisscrossed and your hands open and trying to reach that perfect set. Meditation is whatever it is to you. So for example, my mom, she has this thing where if she's cleaning, then she can like totally clear her mind. And so whether that's, you know, cleaning,

some part of the house or doing dishes or folding laundry, whatever, it's her way of completely clearing her mind. And that is essentially all meditation is, is just letting go of everything, letting your mind clear almost so that it can kind of rest and be able to kind of come back and you can be then your best self at that point. Also walking.

going on walks, sitting in nature, anything that brings you joy and can clear your mind. That's simply all meditation is.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:07:19.141)
What a cool explanation. How about you Haley Jane? How would you describe it?

Haley Jane (01:07:25.509)
I was gonna say the same thing. It so often gets confused for, you know, you have to sit in this pose and you have to do this mudra and you have to breathe this way and it can be done that way and have profound effects but it can also be something as simple as doing the dishes. For me, I love dancing, I love drumming, I love singing and doing music, I love walking in nature. I mean it's...

It's all kinds of different things. It's whatever can get you kind of to that brain state where you're in the seat of your soul rather than your critical thinking mind all of the time. That's all it is. You're just getting out of your thinking mind. And that's not even to say that you won't have thoughts that arise, but it's whenever you're in a state of meditation, or I even like to use the word flow.

then you can kind of view all of these things objectively and watch them almost as a passerby. So you're not being ruled by your conscious mind or your unconscious mind. You're kind of just floating there to be able to hold space for whatever is coming in and going out and all of the other things.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:08:38.02)
Wow, that is just an amazing explanation and I think that that is going to really shift a lot of ahas for people. So I thank you for that. I mean, truly a rock star way to describe that. I love it. Consciousness.

Tonya Kerstiens (01:09:02.466)
business.

Haley Jane (01:09:05.253)
Consciousness for me, like...

Tonya Kerstiens (01:09:16.162)
I feel like it's just kind of the ability to release attachments and have awareness and know that.

Tonya Kerstiens (01:09:35.426)
Consciousness is inside and it's everywhere. I feel like it kind of ties into that enlightenment as well.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:09:49.065)
Consciousness versus spirituality, same or different.

Haley Jane (01:09:59.397)
Consciousness is a part of spirituality, I would say, because really what consciousness is, is the basis of all things. So you could look at consciousness almost as its God source. It's what every thing is in its own specific design. So you could look at consciousness as this giant...

lake, right? And then you have all of these different streams of consciousness that come out of that lake and branch off and into all of these different things in reality. But consciousness is kind of that existence, that sense of, like I'm here, I'm doing this, I'm Haley, I'm Tonya, I'm whatever, like...

But at the same time, I think people tend to think that consciousness is only inherent in like living creatures. People don't tend to usually think that that rock in the creek is conscious or that the roots of the tree are conscious or that the mycelium are talking to everything at all times and have consciousness. Consciousness is the basis of absolutely everything. It just is.

expressing itself differently through different things at any given time.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:11:24.197)
So do either of you have a spiritual word or spiritual term that I've not thrown out there that you would like to talk about for the folks listening?

Tonya Kerstiens (01:11:42.882)
I had a new one the other day and it has, it really tripped me up and I was actually texting Haley about it because I was like, what is this? But I had a client come to me and she was talking about unclaimed energy. And I had never heard that term before. And I was really baffled because I was like, if energy is everywhere and is everything, how can it be unclaimed? It has to.

something has to claim it, right?

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:12:14.892)
That was, I've never heard that. Haley, did you have some wisdom? Or were you baffled?

Haley Jane (01:12:23.717)
Well, her and I were kind of going over it and I was like, well, maybe it's just one of those kind of like residual funks that you see in someone's aura because...

The context was like it was left behind from someone else when they left the room and so my first thought was maybe that it's not necessarily unclaimed but it's just like that trail that I see I don't know if other people do or not but that you can see when somebody gets up and kind of just leaves a lingering energy behind in some way or another and that's as far as I had gotten with it.

Off the top of my head, no, I couldn't think of another term either, so.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:13:05.01)
Okay, so there's, I'm asking each of the presenters a question for the summit. So I'm gonna ask each of you, we're talking about everyone, it's 100 % service to others is equally as important as 100 % service to ourselves. And both should be happening co -currently. You know, you both talk about the work that you do and how you help others. I feel like that.

All of us who are presenters and part of this summit do really well with 100 % service to others, but not necessarily so well with 100 % service to ourselves. Could you each give me an example of what 100 % service to others and 100 % service to yourself looks like for you?

Haley Jane (01:14:00.325)
I enjoy what I do so much that it gives me the...

the service to self that I would need really to be able to do this work. But one thing I guess I'll throw into that is that when you are taking everything as a part of yourself, there is no difference between self and other. So whenever you are doing the best for you, you're doing the best for others. Now, not to say that unconsciously that can't get into tricky territory and narcissistic whatever, but really everything is

from a sense of it serving self in some way or another. We do our jobs because it brings us joy to do this for other people. We do this job because our talents and our gifts are specifically geared towards doing those kinds of things and so we get personal enjoyment out of doing it. It is in some way for ourselves.

something about our journey has led us into spiritual awakening and naturally with that comes the that ripple effect of once you have learned then you teach so there is I feel like there's always inherently a service to self and service to others whether it be conscious or unconscious

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:15:25.681)
Nice, Tonya.

Tonya Kerstiens (01:15:28.226)
as awesomely said. I think that is the beauty of Reiki too, is as you're in a session with a client, they're receiving Reiki and you are too. And I think that is amazing. And I think that's one of the reasons why I came into Reiki is because I had been a massage therapist for so long and I was realizing that

you know, Reiki was helping me feel better and it, I think it has prolonged my massage career for sure. But definitely, you know, I always try to give a hundred percent service and in the past it's gotten me in a lot of trouble of not taking care of myself. I spent a lot of years putting everything and everyone else first and like, I'll get to me later. I'll get to me later. And so,

I would say the past probably three or four years, but mainly in the past year, I've been focusing a lot more on self care. And the best thing that I found is just doing one thing every day that brings me joy, that makes me super happy. And I've started keeping a list of those things that bring me joy. So like the other day I took a nap on the couch.

for like an hour and I woke up and I was in the best mood and I was so happy and I was like, I love couch naps. So I'm going to add that to my list. So.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:17:02.553)
I love that. That is such a great example. That's so funny. I love that, thank you. So I do want to thank you both for participating in this. You have both been incredible and honest and very authentic with yourselves. Do you have any last thoughts you would like to leave for the folks out there who are dipping their toe in the curiosity of spirituality?

Haley Jane (01:17:36.581)
Also there's two ways to get into a pool, dipping or diving.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:17:40.792)
But point, good point. I tend not to be a dipper myself, I tend to be the diver.

Tonya Kerstiens (01:17:50.562)
I would say it doesn't have to be so hard and complicated. Everything really is just simple. And if you come across something that you don't necessarily understand, maybe just sit with it for a while and see what it feels like to you.

Dr. Sandra Marie (01:18:09.144)
Those are good thoughts to leave everyone with. So I want to thank you. Thank you for your time. And then until next time, thank you both.

Haley Jane (01:18:20.549)
Thank you.