Why Do We Stay in Relationships That Don’t Feel Right? Self-Love, Intuition & Healing

Sometimes the relationships that affect us most are the ones that slowly disconnect us from ourselves.

In this powerful conversation, Dr. Sandra Marie speaks with Leslie Zemenek about why so many people stay in relationships that no longer feel aligned, even when they sense something is wrong deep down. Together, they explore self-love, intuition, authenticity, soul purpose, astrology, hand analysis, and what it really takes to stop losing yourself while trying to be who others expect you to be.

The episode also explores:

•      relationship patterns and emotional awareness
•      self-love vs. people pleasing
•      inherited beliefs and performative spirituality
•      authenticity and emotional freedom
•      hand analysis and soul purpose
•      astrology and past-life patterns
•      retrograde planets and spiritual growth
•      vibrational energy and sound
•      numerology and soul mission
•      giving yourself permission to grow and make mistakes

Leslie also explains her unique work combining hand analysis, astrology, and Soul Plan numerology to help people better understand their gifts, challenges, and purpose in this lifetime.

To learn more about Leslie Zemenek and her work:
Website: https://www.lesliezemenek.com/

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Transcript

speaker-0 (00:03.884)
Enjoy this Wild Soul gathering production. I'm Dr. Sandra Marie. Pour yourself a really tall glass of spiritual curiosity and join me for the happy hour for the spiritually curious podcast. In the spirit of happy hour, cheers to some new insights, peace, revitalization, and perhaps an aha moment that may change your life. Hi, Dr. Sandra Marie here. Welcome, everyone. We're happy to have you join us.

Today we're talking about something a lot of people quietly struggle with, knowing something isn't right in their life and staying anyways. My guest today is Leslie Zemanek, a hand analysis astrologer and a life purpose guide, who has helped hundreds of people understand their patterns and reconnect themselves. But what makes this conversation different is her story. She found herself in a relationship that looked loving on the surface.

but over time became confusing, draining, and misaligned. And like many people, she didn't see it clearly until she was already deep in it. Today we're talking about self-love, intuition, relationship patterns, and what actually has to shift for some things to change. Leslie, it is great to have you here today.

speaker-1 (01:22.934)
to be here. Thanks for having me.

speaker-0 (01:25.312)
Like a lot of people, you found yourself in a relationship where something didn't quite line up, even though on the surface it looked fine. In a relationship where words and actions didn't match, what were some of the early signs something wasn't right, and when did that become clear for you?

speaker-1 (01:44.846)
it took a really long time. Well, I'll back up on that. It took a really long time for me to figure out why things weren't quite right, but there were always a few things that seemed off all along. With the compassion that I try to have for human beings, I assumed it was awkwardness, self-worth issues, things like that.

And it turned out to be exactly the opposite, that this person was actually thought of themselves as superior to everyone, but was hiding behind a mask of needing to feel like the nice guy.

speaker-0 (02:31.766)
Sometimes that giving people the benefit of the doubt when you're that compassionate person can make the process a little longer. So for you, Leslie, you're an intuitive and empath, yet you still found yourself in that situation. Why do you think people who are very aware can still miss what's happening in their own lives?

speaker-1 (02:52.16)
Well, I think if you talk to just anybody who does readings, whether it's Tarot or astrology or hands or whatever, they'll always tell you they can never read for themselves. It is so much easier to be able to see for someone else than to see your own stuff going on, your own patterns. And even if you're really good at it, you'll know parts of it. But it takes a lot of commitment.

to looking inward, which is beyond, I think, intuition, beyond intuitive knowing. It takes courage and it takes the ability to really be willing to feel the worst of it in order to do the healing piece. And I think anybody who's taken that journey would understand what I'm talking about.

speaker-0 (03:50.816)
Yeah, I can relate to a lot of that and the courage is courage and permission are both big words in that. At what point does trying to heal a relationship really turn into losing yourself in it? Because would that be the step almost before we get into the courage?

speaker-1 (04:10.126)
Well, I...

speaker-0 (04:12.076)
or post, that could be post.

speaker-1 (04:14.574)
The courage and the decision to do the healing came after it was done. Basically, just want, I'm not spending any more time on this other person. I need to look at why I allowed this. I was not gonna go into the blame game or the finger pointing thing. knew that the, basically I woke up and said, I don't have a lot of time left on this planet and I'm not coming back and doing this again next lifetime. That was what I said to myself.

not coming back and doing this again next lifetime. I'm going to take the time I have left and work on it now." So the only decision I made was that I needed to work on me. And I think that's hard for a lot of people to say, it's me. I need to look at my own.

speaker-0 (05:03.628)
Yes, I would agree with that. So there's a lot of internal processing and work that goes with that. Would you say that that was a process that you started with or that you eased into, really need to look at myself a little bit more than the actual events of the relationship? Like, what was that experience like for you?

speaker-1 (05:28.374)
Are you asking me like how I did it or what my process was? I dove in head first. There was no tippy-toeing around. I worked with three different healers at once. And that's kind of me. I'm all in or I'm not in at all. That's always how I am in general. So yeah, I worked with three different healers.

speaker-0 (05:32.227)
Yeah.

speaker-0 (05:46.392)
Okay, so you did jump into it.

speaker-1 (05:58.36)
For a full year, I called it my year in the underworld because I was willing to go however, wherever because at that point I was just, done. I'm done. I deserve better. I need to know what, know, where did this come from? What are my beliefs that are not serving me? How did I get here? How do I not do this again? You know, all the questions that you might have.

And yes, I've been helping other people with this kind of stuff. But as I mentioned earlier, it's really hard to see your own. I mean, I have someone else I go to to read my yearly astrology, even though I could do it myself. It's very, very, very hard to be. Well, dispassionate came into my mind, but that's not the right word to see the bigger picture, I think, when you're in the middle of the soup.

speaker-0 (06:54.894)
Well, that makes sense to me. think that most people will have their cards read or go to someone else for their readings. I think that that's pretty normal. And for me, a lot of that would be the clarity, right? So they're not going to have that emotion attached to it as they're giving that information. And they're not going to interpret the information, right? So when we do our own reading, sometimes we're already interpreting it and creating stories in our mind without

staying true to what the reading is. I think that's the gift a lot of times of going to someone else.

speaker-1 (07:32.366)
Well, and if you go to somebody who's really good, they're not going to pussyfoot around. And the people I choose to go to are not ones who would soft pedal what I need to hear.

speaker-0 (07:44.12)
Right. No sugar coating. Yes. I'm always upfront with that myself. Like just put it out there.

speaker-1 (07:52.302)
Yeah, and that's how I read with people and always with a lot of compassion. never like look at somebody and say something mean. But when I, you know, I want people to understand they're wasting their money or their time with me if they're not getting what they really need.

speaker-0 (07:58.956)
Of course.

speaker-0 (08:10.496)
Okay. So let's move on to the next step that I think is related to that and talk about self-love. What does it actually look like in real decisions and behaviors?

speaker-1 (08:23.362)
Yeah, this is a big thing I talk about a lot. I talk about it in terms of everything these days. First of all, I think you have to know who you are.

And too many of us are running around on the planet trying to be something they think other people want them to be. And whether that's because of family stuff that they need to, it's something we do in order, what we think we need to do in order to feel loved. However, if you're not being authentically who you are, that love you're getting is not real either because they're loving a

false version of you. self-love, yeah, it has to proceed love from others. So I believe there's three steps. There's you have to know who you are, accept it without judgment, accept yourself without judgment, and then, you know, love yourself, give yourself permission to really love yourself. And, you know, there's so much

speaker-0 (09:13.998)
That's big.

speaker-1 (09:40.142)
I know it's less than it used to be, but it used to be that you would be told you were selfish and that was wrong and all of it. I I'm old enough to remember those days. I know that's changed a lot as people have done a lot of this work on themselves and culturally it's...

speaker-0 (10:00.979)
especially for women.

speaker-1 (10:02.518)
especially for women, although, you know.

speaker-0 (10:04.886)
It goes both ways, but especially for women.

speaker-1 (10:07.554)
Yeah, it goes back and forth too. It's like a little dance back and forth. I think, to be honest, the whole idea, if you're not being authentic, then so much else in your life is not going to be able to land. So really, getting to know who you are, getting to know what your needs are, your needs aren't getting met. You can't be in a good relationship with yourself or with

others. And that's not just with a romantic partner, but that's with your friends, your family, because you're always going to be trying to guess what does that person want? Who do they think I should be? That's exhausting.

speaker-0 (10:55.414)
It is, and it's interesting because that is now becoming one of the bigger topics in the spiritual community is talking about inherited beliefs and letting go of lot of inherited beliefs and beliefs that people don't even realize they have. And you talked a little bit about, you know, that the culture part of it or the expectation. But the other piece that you added in that I loved is

The other thing that we're hearing a lot about is performative spirituality and a lot of performance. And you just explained that whole need for performance is like a people pleasing kind of thing. As I was listening to you, I was like, that actually really is connecting a lot to those conversations that are really just getting started. They're spoken a little different than you spoke it, but you're taking it back to the self, which is

the core of where it starts, right? And then it oozes onto the rest of that. So Leslie, your thoughts on what is the most misunderstood part of self-love? Because I think you touched on some of the things, but self-love really becomes very misunderstood.

speaker-1 (12:09.4)
Well, yeah, because we're, you know, there's the whole idea of it being selfish. You know, when I give a lot of my talks or when I, even when I'm just talking to individuals who are struggling with self-love or being in service to others and then not in service to themselves, because I also talk about it in terms of service, a lot of people exhaust themselves trying to do for others or to do for the planet or whatever.

thing they care about without filling themselves back up again. You know, this happens in all aspects, not just in relationships, but just in existing. So I often talk about what they tell you when you get on an airplane, right? When you're getting ready to take off, they always tell you to put the mask on yourself first before you help the person in the seat next to you. And I call that wisdom for the ages.

Right? It is the metaphor for almost... It's almost, it's like a metaphor for like how we should do everything. Because if we're exhausting ourselves, if we're dismissing ourselves, if we're not believing in ourselves, not valuing ourselves, we can't show up in a way where we can contribute to the world to share our gifts, to make a difference.

speaker-0 (13:09.742)
So most of ages.

speaker-1 (13:36.088)
to show that true compassion for people. Honestly, when you get to that place where you can really say, love myself, in that sort of healthy way, the level of freedom it grants you is immense. It's immense.

speaker-0 (13:54.422)
And it is freedom. So I'm going to throw something out, and it's just probably a weirdness to me. So I have a teacher that I've worked with in the past, and he talks a lot about, like myself. And it was really pivotal to me because I've done a lot of work with self-love, and I think that that is just an ongoing thing in life.

And I thought it's easy to say I love myself. And for a lot of people, almost culturally, I love you, thank you, it just sort of flows out of people's mouths. But when I had to say I like myself, I thought, ooh, that's a real shift. That wasn't so easy to say. I could legitimately say I love myself and feel it in my heart. But initially, when I...

speaker-1 (14:30.421)
huh.

speaker-0 (14:46.644)
did the I like myself, it was like, okay, that feels very different to me. Now it's been years since I've been doing that and the I like myself is a real energetic shift for me. you know, I've really grown with it, but a lot of times it's almost grounding for myself in a situation where I just sit and do the I like myself and then, you know, it's a whole different vibration. Your thoughts on that?

speaker-1 (15:16.472)
I like that you mentioned that we sometimes can say I love you before we can say I, or I love myself before I can say I like myself. And I think that's true in relationship with others too. We say I love you, we fall in love. You know, some people call it limerence, right? When it's, there's the excitement to it. But you know, and really if you're gonna assess whether someone should be in your life, the question you should ask is do I like this person?

Do I like this person as who they are? Do I like who they show up as? That's almost more important if you're going to have someone in your life long term. So the same for yourself. Yeah. And on the opposite side, I think some days it's okay to say I didn't show up as the best version of myself, but then you still have to say, ultimately overall I like myself.

speaker-0 (16:14.954)
Yeah, it makes a difference. Many, many years ago, my daughter had, she was in college and she had bought me this really cool peace watch and she gave it to me for Christmas. It was really a pretty cool gift. And she was almost crying when she gave it to me and I'm like, what's wrong? And she goes, well, I had a great, I had a lot of gifts engraved for Christmas this year and the engraver got what I wanted wrong on the watch.

And so, you know, I hope you like, I'm like, I love the watch. This is great. And I read it and it said, I like you. And I was like, hey, if you like me and you legitimately mean this, this means more to me than I love you because there's an awful lot of people out there who love their parents who don't like them so much. And I think that you see that with a lot of, especially family dynamics. So it's.

speaker-1 (17:05.83)
huh.

speaker-1 (17:11.714)
Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (17:14.262)
It's just interesting, the like and the love.

speaker-1 (17:16.811)
Yeah, I think this is, it's really interesting to think about it in those terms. I mean, the person I separated from would tell me he loved me all the time, daily, and yet his actions did not fit. And so there is that part that you are often learning growing up about saying the words.

love. You're told by your family, tell your mom you love her, tell your dad you love her, right? Or tell your auntie. So the word starts to lose true meaning.

speaker-0 (17:56.428)
Yeah, that's a good point. It's almost even in some relationships forced on people.

speaker-1 (18:02.638)
Well, and when I was grown, okay, so when I was a little kid, so I, my family, I'll just say this, it was fairly dysfunctional. And I was also in Catholic school. So, you you learn those 10 commandments and there was the honor thy father and thy mother, you know, which is, you know, kind of a corollary to, you know, tell your mom you love them, her, tell your dad you love him.

Even as a little tiny kid, I would say, but what if I don't like them? What if they're not nice? You know, so I was questioning this. Of course, I got in trouble in Catholic school for that.

speaker-0 (18:48.866)
We all got in trouble in Catholic school for a lot of things.

speaker-1 (18:51.726)
But it was a big question for me, even as a little kid. So it doesn't surprise me that I've ended up on this journey and the bigger picture in terms of what does it mean to care for another human on all those different levels, as well as to then be able to say the same about yourself.

speaker-0 (19:17.19)
Well, that is fascinating that it was on your plate that young because this really is your life's work, it sounds like to me.

speaker-1 (19:25.294)
Yeah, I, you know, I mean, it took me going through my own crisis to really understand that this is my life's work. I mean, I was kind of working on the authenticity level, but then I think this is taking it to a much higher level than just authenticity.

speaker-0 (19:48.47)
Yeah, if that's what it feels like for sure.

speaker-1 (19:50.516)
Authenticity is a piece of it, but there's much, much more.

speaker-0 (19:56.216)
Well, you talk about having a purpose or a design in life. Yes. So let's just move on from, discovered your purpose, which clearly you discovered early on, you just didn't necessarily connect all those dots at that time. How do you help someone begin to understand that purpose? You use tools like hand analysis, numerology, astrology. For someone new to this, how does that actually help someone?

see what they might be missing. Actually, that's sort of big. I don't know where you want to start with that if you want to break it down.

speaker-1 (20:33.15)
I believe, I do believe everyone comes in with a purpose and I think the purpose is twofold. It's to work on ourselves and to contribute something to the world. And so I think it operates on an earthly level and a spiritual level. And I also believe that until you work on yourself, you can't actually contribute to the greater good of the world because the thing that you best can bring to this world, the thing that the universe is asking of you is

this thing that only you can do. That only you can do because you're you, right? And so I have three tools I use. I believe there are three moments where you are given your life mission. And the first is in the womb. And it's encoded in the fingerprints. And the fingerprints are complete in the womb at 16 weeks after conception. They are complete.

speaker-0 (21:09.453)
Right.

speaker-1 (21:32.206)
the way they will be for your entire life because we know your fingerprints never change. That's the system I use in hand analysis. The first thing I do when I sit with someone is interpret their fingerprint code to their purpose. The second is, I believe, at the moment of birth when your birth chart, your astrological chart is set in stone at that moment.

A lot of traditional astrologers work on reading in terms of personality. I do it a little different because I really like to look at what did you bring with you from previous lifetimes. And that to me talks about the gift that you've developed because you've developed it over and over and over. And the third moment, you mentioned numerology. I don't do traditional numerology. What I do is a type of numerology.

based on the Kabbalistic alphabet, where they have a system they call gematria, which is where the alphabet, the Hebrew letters specifically, have numbers associated with them. And in gematria, the idea is that you figure out the number for certain phrases, and they would do this with like spiritual texts and things. And the idea being that phrases and paragraphs and words that come up with the same number

are related and then there's this philosophical discussion about it it's fascinating and beautiful and complex and over most people's heads. there is someone who came up with a system for applying that technique to the birth name with the idea like in many cultures or systems, spiritual systems a lot of people believe or a lot of them.

The systems believe that the earth was created through sound, through vibration. And so sound and vibration have spiritual energies to them. So the first time your name is spoken after you're born, the vibration contains your soul mission.

speaker-0 (23:46.22)
Really?

speaker-1 (23:47.22)
That's how this system works. So I've been doing the hand analysis and the past life astrology for three decades, and I only came upon this system a couple of years ago. And someone did a reading for me, and I had one of those moments when they did it. And I never felt a need for another tool, but I felt this one was like the icing.

on the other two systems I have and partly because this one in particular really emphasizes the spiritual aspect of your purpose. It does contain the earthly aspect and each of the three systems that I use give you a little bit of different information but none of them contradict each other and that's how I chose those three because I feel like if a system contradicts

Another system? One of them can't be true.

speaker-0 (24:47.668)
I would agree with that for sure.

speaker-1 (24:50.166)
So, I mean, in order to really hone my way of reading the astrological chart, I compared the fingerprints and the charts of hundreds of people to really say, I can prove this works. And now I've been doing that with the Soul Plan system, which uses the vibration of the name. And everyone I've done that reading for has just gone...

my God. And they tell their friends because they've never had anything like it.

speaker-0 (25:22.456)
That's fascinating to me. I've always been drawn to the vibrational work and gosh, I don't know, 10, 15, 20 years ago, it's hard to tell because time just keeps moving. But there was one point where I did know someone who did a lot of sound work and I wanted to learn more about it and it was like almost impossible to find anywhere to learn anything about it. Now, sound work is everywhere, right?

It's like Reiki, you there was a time when no one heard of Reiki and now it's just all over the place. So that's fascinating to me that that has come into your life and the power with it. I'm going to share another really weird story with you. On the farm, on the south end of it, there was a place that I was brought to that I was told was the most sacred of sacred spaces.

I needed to open this ley line there and I'm like, say what? You want me to do what? I don't understand what you're even talking about. So basically it was this version of this pre-language time on earth with beings and where the planet itself, and it goes back to what you said, so it's interesting because this is all just coming into my awareness in the last year actually.

there was a lot of toning and the energy and the timelines were toned in and that I was asked to go down there and continue that work. And what I realized was I kept seeing this girl sitting on this rock in this field and this field really like they said it was the most sacred of sacred spots but what I'll tell you is like I was just like, man.

just like the energy down here is like off the charts. And the couple of people I've taken to that particular area, I'm just like, just want you to like come down here and I'm curious what you think because you know, you just never know what to think. But the next thing I knew, like I was, and I can't honestly carry a tune or even at a concert clap and stay in rhythm with anyone. Seriously.

speaker-0 (27:46.518)
And the next thing I know, like this stuff is just like flowing out of my mouth and these sounds and this energy and stuff. And it was like, what the, you know, like what the hell? Who do you talk to about this? But so it's, as you're talking about the soul plane numerology for some reason, it's energetically like all connecting with me. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.

speaker-1 (28:10.37)
Well, like I said, I had that experience when someone did the reading for me. so I had to search out a teacher for this because I knew. like I said, everyone I've done this for now has had a similar experience where it's the resonance. there's actually, I just did a lot of work with a woman I've been working with for a long time.

where she has gone through the process of changing her name multiple times. And so there's something you can do where you look at name changes, or you could even use this for someone's business name, or if they're choosing a name for a baby. But she's got a professional presence, and she was trying to decide which of the various names she's used over the years was going to be the most powerful.

We came up with an answer for her that just resonated so strongly. I can tell the difference even in her presence of how she shows up using this name. And I'll tell you, I changed my own name years and years and years ago before I knew anything about any of these systems. The spelling was such that no one could pronounce it. And I got tired of people either butchering it or not wanting to

tried because they would be embarrassed. And that's what happens. And a lot of times when people don't want to be embarrassed, they, a lot of times what they wouldn't even talk to me because they would just didn't want to be embarrassed by not being able to say my name. So I changed it to a phonetic spelling. And I have to tell you the energy shift from changing my name was incredible.

I like the whole way my life was playing out changed. So you

speaker-0 (30:14.936)
can't make this stuff up. No, you can't.

speaker-1 (30:17.198)
think, you don't even realize that's going to happen. But I mean, I got to the point where like before, like people would not talk to me. They would not treat me well sometimes. And then all of a sudden, when I changed the spelling, everyone wanted to be around me. would thought I was the cool person. in my 20s at the time, but it shifted everything.

speaker-0 (30:43.512)
Wow, so I'm just curious, do you feel like energetically or vibration, I'm going to use word vibration. Yeah. Because that seems to be core to this. Do you think that we're vibrationally ready for these things now?

speaker-1 (31:00.814)
for what things for understanding of this.

speaker-0 (31:03.916)
Yeah, for it's more people's vibrations are raising where people are going to be drawn to it or they're going to have be able to integrate it or understand it more. I guess is the way I would like to ask it.

speaker-1 (31:21.304)
Whether they're ready for it or not, think the world needs it.

speaker-0 (31:25.71)
Yeah, go on, don't disagree with that.

speaker-1 (31:30.094)
Well, you I do believe that different souls are operating on different levels. think, okay, one of the things I talk about in terms of soul development is that when, you know, there's more souls on the planet than ever before. So in the last hundred years, the number of people on the planet quadrupled. In the previous hundred years, it only doubled.

where did all those souls come from, right? Because you think you have souls who are becoming karma free and not coming back. So there's a lot of new souls. So when you think about that, I think it takes a few lifetimes to just figure things out, like how to be in a body, how to survive, how to make sure you get food on your table. So some of those souls are still like baby souls, right? But I do think that as we progress,

We are being asked more and more. In a sense, those souls who've been here longer, many more times, who've been around the wheel more times, almost have to carry a little more for the number of new souls who are here, who aren't yet ready to step into their mission. Does that make sense?

speaker-0 (32:42.634)
It does, and I always have like so many questions when you talk about that, because clearly it's by design. mean, astrologically, there's so many things that have come together with the planet itself right now. As you were talking about that, I wasn't that consciously aware that we had quadrupled. As you're saying it, I'm like, it's clearly by design for a bigger picture that maybe I don't necessarily understand, but...

That's it's fascinating to me, Holly, but it is fascinating to me.

speaker-1 (33:15.188)
So, I I actually only looked up that statistic kind of recently to kind of corroborate some of other things I was looking at. in a sense, it gives me a little more compassion. When I think about, you know, some of the stuff that's going on in the world, you just go, what? And so I just go, okay, there's a lot of young souls on the planet right now. They're just trying to figure it out.

speaker-0 (33:41.56)
That makes sense. So you do a lot of really unique, different kind of work. This whole Soul Plan numerology have massively piqued my curiosity about that. But I do want to go back to the hand analysis, because I think a lot of people go to the person with the crystal ball and more the reading the poems, and your work is very different than that.

speaker-1 (34:05.848)
And it's not what we think of as traditional palmistry. And in fact, hand reading historically, like back in the ancients, they did not use it for prediction. It was used much more like the way I use it now. The predictive pieces of it kind of happened in fairly modern times. A lot of people would say more in Victorian times where they started to talk about how long you're to...

live, which by the way, I have the world's shortest lifeline. So I'm not dead. I'm pretty old and I'm not dead. So nobody should be scared if they have a short lifeline. And I love being the poster child for it. Because, you know, here I am, I talk about hands all the time. Actually, hands are my biggest love. is because first of all,

speaker-0 (34:48.878)
I'm going to make a difference for some people for sharing that.

speaker-1 (35:05.176)
They're so beautiful. They're like magic. Like we use them for everything, right? And to be able to read everything that's going on with who you are in the hands, it's so immediate because it's right on your own body. So it's essentially like I could crack open somebody's skull and read their brain wiring without the mess.

speaker-0 (35:30.606)
So it's just like, it's physical astrology. I don't know if that's a good way to put it. On your website, you have some interesting things that you put on there with people who are more famous to make sense of it for some people and marry some concepts together. And I found that really interesting when I was looking at it. And I thought, I feel like we could have just done the whole show on hand analysis, to be honest with you, because there is so much

history to it. And I think there's so much misunderstanding to it.

speaker-1 (36:06.23)
Yes, yes. you know, before science cracked the DNA code, the medical world used hand markings and skin ridge pattern markings to understand genetic issues and diseases. And very few people know this. You have to be a nerd like me. But there is a scientific element.

relationship between the markings in the hands, you know, that goes back a long time. There's still studies being done, like there's a lot of studies being done on finger lengths now, and they correlate that to things like SAT scores. And there was even a study done during COVID to say with finger lengths to talk about how likely you were to get the disease.

speaker-0 (37:04.843)
really.

speaker-1 (37:05.92)
Yeah, I'm probably one of the few nerds who discovered that study too.

speaker-0 (37:11.35)
I think that's really cool.

speaker-1 (37:13.336)
So that's ongoing still to this day, even though they don't use marks in the hands to diagnose like they used to before because we have so many other options.

speaker-0 (37:28.322)
But now that research is still continuing on a different level. Like I was fascinated about a finger getting cut off and that fingerprint will literally grow back.

speaker-1 (37:39.82)
Yes, I had one client who cut off a half of the top of phalange and the fingerprint grew back over the healed area. It just folded back over the back part of her finger, was, I mean, obviously if you cut it down here, that's not going to happen. I mean, it just wants to be there. It wants to be there.

speaker-0 (38:03.53)
It's that important.

speaker-1 (38:05.398)
You know, you see on these movies that, you know, or books, they talk about, you know, trying to disguise your fingerprints so you won't get caught for a crime, but that's actually not really possible. You cannot get rid of your fingerprints. They grow back.

speaker-0 (38:19.854)
That is what I've heard and now you have confirmed that for me. So are there different lines like in your palms of your hands that aren't static?

speaker-1 (38:28.526)
All the lines can change your whole life.

speaker-0 (38:31.64)
Talk a little bit about that.

speaker-1 (38:33.614)
They are related to how your brain is wired. The lines in your hands have nothing to do with how you use your hands. have had people tell me, I'm just going to... People a lot of times think they get more lines in their hands as they age, just like you do on your face. And that's not necessarily true. And actually, if someone is having brain function disorders, the lines will actually disappear. They found this out a long time ago in medical world that...

speaker-0 (38:56.93)
Really?

speaker-1 (39:02.318)
For instance, a coma patient, the part of the brain that was damaged, the lines in the hands that correspond to that would disappear as they were in a coma. And patients who woke up from their coma would get them back.

speaker-0 (39:18.894)
Wow.

speaker-1 (39:20.374)
again, one of my nerdy things that I know.

speaker-0 (39:23.566)
Well, it's just, it's amazing to me. I think, you know, I work in healthcare and the body is truly magical and amazing, but there are so many things we don't talk about. And of course, you know, now we're starting to talk about how the physical is connected to the etheric and the more spiritual. So that's fascinating to me, especially with the brain. Like, is that all just physical or is that physical and spiritual?

speaker-1 (39:51.374)
Right. And really nobody knows where consciousness lives. Right. You know, in the body. So in terms of the hands changing, and when I work with people, I ink their hands and we date them, and people come back and we make comparisons to see what has changed. I like to call the fingerprints nature because those never change, and everything else is nurture because our brains are plastic.

So we can change our beliefs, we can change our habits, and we can make new neural connections. And it's not a quick change. It's not like someone will come back in a week and it will be different.

speaker-0 (40:36.238)
And there's a lot of science out there and a lot of talk with the telomeres and all of that. So this is truly just another aspect to support all of that.

speaker-1 (40:46.414)
Yeah. you know, and I, know, people sometimes think they're just the way they are. I'm like, you, well, you know, there's parts of you that are kind of set fingerprints and the fingerprints. just to clarify, and this is in all the systems I use. There's the gifts you bring as your, your purpose and how you can, you know,

be in service in the world and to yourself, obviously, as I mentioned earlier, to yourself first so you can bring the best of you to the world.

But there's coded into all three systems, the fingerprint, the natal chart, and the soul plan chart is what you need to learn in order for your soul to advance.

And so a lot of the work I do with people is giving them permission to make mistakes.

speaker-0 (41:47.95)
That's so important.

speaker-1 (41:49.6)
so important and to not beat themselves up, not to like base their worth on it, it's essential. Nobody comes into this world knowing everything. Even old souls make mistakes.

speaker-0 (42:03.916)
Yeah, because you're coming here for a growth and a different purpose. Yeah. So the other beauty of it would be to help if you understand the influences with a lot of this information. makes sense sometimes of your, it can make sense of your crazy sometimes, but it can make sense of the whys that you don't understand that.

you may be beating yourself up with or confused or something like that.

speaker-1 (42:34.862)
Yeah, where you're judging yourself. And yet, those places actually are where some of the most beautiful bits are to me in the work because...

The minute you can start loving those parts of yourself as well, the parts that you're not good at, when you give yourself permission to learn, to make the mistakes, get, it's basically, it's just information, right? It's all just information. But when you give yourself that permission, that's where you can elevate what you already know to a next level. We talk about that a lot in hand analysis.

The thing you came to learn, the number one thing you came to learn that's encoded in the fingerprints is the key to unlocking everything else. You need that in order for everything else to blossom.

speaker-0 (43:26.839)
Okay.

speaker-0 (43:31.638)
Wow, that's pretty big. And being able to let go of that self-judgment, that's a big roadblock.

speaker-1 (43:43.16)
Yeah, and it's through this work that I understood that helped bring me to this place around self-love and self-acceptance, which is a precursor to self-love.

speaker-0 (43:56.342)
Yeah, that's... Wow.

speaker-1 (43:57.74)
So it's self-knowledge is step one, self-acceptance is step two, and then that leads finally to self-love.

speaker-0 (44:05.422)
Well, talk about the influence of the retrograde planets in someone's natal chart and how does that affect past life patterns and how can we use that now?

speaker-1 (44:17.73)
That is one of the pieces that I look at in the astrology chart and put a lot of emphasis on. Retrograde motion, which is apparent backwards motion. know, everybody gets nervous about Mercury retrograde, but all the planets, except the sun and the moon obviously, do have retrograde motion. And some of them stay retrograde for months and months at a time. it's more unusual to have no retrograde planets than it is to have

two, three, or four in a natal chart. And those planets, I look at the sign they're in and the house they're in because this is areas where this lifetime you get a chance to redo something that didn't go well. Because when you think of retrograde, it's going back over old territory and redoing it in a different way or reviewing it, redoing it, reassessing it.

So I'll use all the re words, right?

speaker-0 (45:18.35)
Because a lot of times people will say, why do I keep having this come up in my life over and over and over again?

speaker-1 (45:24.47)
Right, right. Now some of those planets are a little more challenging than others like a retrograde Pluto is definitely a little more challenging because that's going to be about power struggles. But Mercury retrograde is not so bad. It's often found in the charts of people who end up writing.

speaker-0 (45:46.03)
that's so interesting.

speaker-1 (45:47.148)
And Jupiter retrograde to me is about a lost opportunity and being given another chance to take up the opportunity.

speaker-0 (46:01.304)
So that's all pretty positive.

speaker-1 (46:02.784)
It's very positive. It's very positive.

speaker-0 (46:07.726)
That's a beautiful do-over.

speaker-1 (46:09.42)
It is. It really is.

speaker-0 (46:13.482)
My brother was, he's like, well, I born in a Mercury retrograde and you know, cause people always bring it up. And I was like, I didn't know that. And then recently I found out that I was also born under a Mercury retrograde. And I thought that was. Well, yeah. And then when you talked about the writing, I thought, well, that's interesting. Cause he just wrote a book. That's just interesting. So it would be pretty common for people to be born under a Mercury.

speaker-1 (46:25.902)
Yeah, well like three times a year.

speaker-0 (46:41.538)
retrograde, are the odds of that?

speaker-1 (46:43.926)
Well, like I said, three times a year, Venus doesn't go retrograde every year. It's only every year and a half. So that's the least likely one to have. The outer planets stay retrograde, like I said, for months at a time. So it's not uncommon to have Saturn, Neptune, Uranus, or Pluto retrograde.

speaker-0 (47:03.148)
be interesting for the people who were born or more recently. Weren't we in a period where every planet was direct? I feel like astrology, something just happened recently where every planet went direct.

speaker-1 (47:17.954)
And then it was just in Aries.

speaker-0 (47:21.23)
I know enough about astrology to get me in trouble. just listen to the YouTube programs as you're talking. I'm like, what about those souls that were born on the planet during that time?

speaker-1 (47:35.192)
There are periods where every planet's direct. That's not that in common.

speaker-0 (47:39.2)
Okay. didn't know that.

speaker-1 (47:41.942)
It does happen. But I know that just like we just were going through a period where like almost almost everything was in Aries, not quite everything because the outer planets are going to be different. there was this huge cluster and Aries, of course, being the beginning of the zodiac, talking about taking action. It's about we moved from Pisces. We were clustered in Pisces for quite a while, which is about dreaming. And it's not about taking action.

And it's also can be about confusion, like not knowing what to take action on. And then Aerie says, okay, let's kick all those dreams now into gear. So that's a big shift we just went through.

speaker-0 (48:22.09)
Okay, so it's go time, whatever go time may be.

speaker-1 (48:23.8)
Go time.

Right, and it's going to be different for different people depending on what house it sits in in their chart, where it is on the wheel.

speaker-0 (48:33.862)
So I would guess for me just in listening to the, you know, with the conversation that we just had, having some of this other information about soul purpose and all the information that comes with the hand analysis and that super cool soul numerology thing that you talked about, that would really be helpful on top of knowing

what planet it's in your astrology. So if you're looking for go time, it would give you a little more clarity with that, correct?

speaker-1 (49:07.148)
Yeah, the more information you have about where you're headed, maybe the less likely you are to get off on a tangent or distracted. know, tangents and distractions sometimes give us information as well.

speaker-0 (49:19.99)
Yeah, I feel like I live my life on a tangent and distraction. Like I have the t-shirts that say all who wander are not lost.

speaker-1 (49:29.87)
No, we need both kinds of people. are people who are very focused, and then there are people who are bringing in a lot of information, and they're synthesizers. So we need both kinds. And actually, in the Soul Plan numerology, all the numbers are doubles. It's not just like eight or six or 14. It's six six or 14 six, 14 five or

speaker-0 (49:41.144)
Okay.

speaker-1 (49:58.094)
you know, 22-4 or 10-1 or 3-3. So people who have the numbers where they're doubled are the focusers. And there's a number of numbers on the chart. So the ones who have a majority of compound numbers are the synthesizers.

speaker-0 (50:16.312)
Wow, this has been a great conversation, a lot for me to ponder and think about for sure. Leslie, for someone who wanted to go deeper with you after this conversation, where would they start and what could they expect from working with you?

speaker-1 (50:31.466)
Well, they can expect a lot of comprehension because no matter which system we work with, there's a lot of information and all of that. My website is the same as my name, no space obviously between the A and the Z.com. I do have a free download for people who are interested in looking at the retrograde planets in their charts. they could, I think it's right on my homepage if you scroll down. They should be able to very easily find that.

speaker-0 (50:56.866)
Okay.

speaker-1 (51:01.28)
So that's always a good start. also have a, at the very bottom in the footer, there's a way, if you want to just get on a little 30 minute chat with me to find out what I could do for you, I'm always available for that as well.

speaker-0 (51:15.896)
Beautiful, I'll make sure that I include all of that in the show notes. As we're winding down, I have one last question for you. Okay. What is the most important thing that we didn't talk about today?

speaker-1 (51:19.758)
Okay.

speaker-1 (51:30.542)
We talked about a lot.

speaker-0 (51:32.824)
that we did.

speaker-1 (51:35.02)
Boy. Well, I'm just going to repeat something I said earlier, that we all came into this lifetime with something beautiful to contribute. Everyone has a mission. Everyone has something unique to contribute to the world. And no one should ever feel that they are less than anyone else.

And that's what I have learned from working with the beautiful souls who have put their hands out for me, who have let me look into their charts, who have let me, you know, analyze their names. I sometimes wonder if I don't get more out of it than they do.

speaker-0 (52:16.942)
I love that. I love that. And really, what important and powerful words to end the show with. Leslie, much appreciation for sharing your story and your willingness to be authentic about your life. And for everyone out there, a strong reminder that self-love, I would say, isn't optional, it's foundational.

speaker-1 (52:41.774)
truly is. Thank you for having me. I've really enjoyed our conversation.

speaker-0 (52:46.912)
Absolutely. To learn more about Wild Soul Gatherings, you can go to our website, wildsoulsgathering.com. And for all the listeners out there, thank you for taking time out of your day to join Leslie and myself. Remember, stay curious. Until next time, thanks again, Leslie.

speaker-1 (53:03.406)
Thank you.

speaker-0 (53:05.944)
Thank you for joining us for this episode of Wild Soul Gathering's Happy Hour for the Spiritually Curious. To learn more about our guests, please go to our website, WildSoulsGathering.com. We're very eager to hear from our listeners what you thought of the episode, topics you might like us to cover in the future, your thoughts on spirituality, questions you may have. Please feel free to send us an email at WildSoulsGathering.gmail.com.

This is your host, Dr. Sandra Marie, sending each of you peace and love. Until we meet again, embrace your wild soul.